My grandpa was a Polish immigrant. I spent massive time with him. He came here after the Russian Polish war in 1922 from Europe born in 1906 he was 16. He taught me repeatedly that there were 2 types of people in this world. Jews and Jew haters. My other grandpa was a fanatical revisionist Zionist. Jabotinsky was mentioned constantly in our home. My dad and uncle spent summers training at Camp Betar in Hunter NY. We were always from a young age taught to defend ourselves militantly. I would tell any parent to teach their children to defend themselves and absolutely “Jews learn to shoot” my favorite Jabotinsky line.
Thanks Kafr for sharing your story. I also agree it’s important for Jewish kids to learn some self defense especially today. Mine are in karate and I plan to teach them about gun safety and shooting at an appropriate age. I am not sure when that is because I didn’t learn about how to responsibly handle firearms until I was an adult.
Jews have some of the lowest rates of gun ownership in America because many of us are concentrated in liberal cities with strict gun laws and it can be a hassle getting permits in many of those cities. Helping more Jews learn to navigate the paperwork and giving them the tools to learn how to be responsible gun owners is one of the goals of Maccabee Nation and something I plan to write more about in the future. It’s unfortunately more important than ever.
A friends son has been actively engaged in the PP protesting scene here in Melbourne to his mothers heartache. We were discussing this and I asked her I wonder what he thinks “from the river to the sea meant”? She asked him. Firstly he couldn’t name tue river or the sea, secondly he adamantly denied that it meant removing all the Jews. So the bottom line is half the protestors have no idea what they are protesting for.
This has been my experience as well. Why should our children be the victims of their willful ignorance and stupidity though? The response here is geared toward young kids. Older kids, especially those in high school and college will face very different challenges. Unfortunately I see the likelihood for violence for older kids being very high. We have to have a lot of serious and tough conversations about how to advise these kids in a way they can live their lives safely and with dignity in this f*cked up world we find ourselves in.
Wow. This is scary. Living in Israel we don’t feel individual antisemitism because we’re all in it together.
I would definitely put antisemitism in a historical context. On Passover we say “bchol dor v’dor “, in every generation. Even though life can be frightening here, my children and grandchildren know from age 0 that the Egyptians did it to us, the Persians (Purim), the Greeks (Chanukah), the Romans, the Nazis, and the Arabs in modern history.Even the Babylonians because they destroyed the first Temple. There are so many stories of true Jewish heros, both on a physical level and a spiritual level., to tell about. We’re still here, and those cultures are gone. The Arabs are the final challenge.
The main thing is that children should have a genuine Jewish education , to feel proud of their heritage, and to get to know the wondrous aspects of being a Jew..
Thank you Liba for sharing your perspective, those great lessons.
Creating a space where Israelis, Diaspora Jews, and our allies, can have these types of conversations is one of the things I love most about helping build this community.
It is one thing to talk about anti-semitism, another for the child to experience it and thus learn from experience. As a kid, my parents never discussed anti-semitism with me, that is, they never brought it up. I learned it on the streets of Brooklyn, learned you had to be tough and resilient. The lesson was experiential, there was no need for discussion.
NO, it would have made me nervous and maybe paranoid. Not expecting to find hatred allows you to remain less nervous and eliminated the paranoia. Without going into details, I learned it experientially, which the best kind of learning. My wife and I decided not to talk to our three kids about anti-semitism, even to the point that when our house got egged for about 3 straight years during Hanukkah, we didn't attribute it to the menorah in our front window. We told the kids it was mischief. I got up one morning at 4:30 am and set up in my car. At 5:30 am a car drove by, stopped, and the house got egged. I was able to stop the vandals, both about 17, and decided not to call the cops but to take their driving licenses so I knew where they lived. They never did it again. My kids are all happily married, not paranoid at all. I do think they don't see anti-semitism when it actually happens. My son is a tough kid and went straight into the Army out of high school, served as an Army Ranger and was deployed twice to Afghanistan and once to Iraq. When he described certain adverse and unfair treatment by one officer, I told him I thought it might be because my son was Jewish. My son discounted that, just thought the guy was an asshole. I told him it could be both.
Thank you for sharing that perspective. I think it’s important and helpful. It makes me less worried about getting the timing right, and I think it’s as valid a strategy as any other. There are truly no right or wrong answer and a lot I think depends on the nature of the kid and the community you’re in.
One more question, I’m not sure how old your kids are, but if they’re similar in age to me, I do think Israel was less of a partisan issue then as it is today. I personally believe it might be harder in school for kids now and that might mean we have to take extra steps to prepare them proactively. I’d like to hear your thoughts… will kids today have to deal with more bullshit than we did?
Good points. My kids didn't have to deal as much with the Jew hatred thinly disguised as anti Zionism. My kids are 36, 35, 30, 30, and 28. Several grandkids between ages 2 and 9.
There were several thousands of children in Concentration Camps, even babies (around 23.000 in Oswiecim/ Auschwitz): they weren´t asked if they can (under)stand this.
The right time more or less always is when the children begin to pose questions, which mostly is at a very young age. Adults should not distract here or beat around the bush. they mostly don´t have to tell children to "sit down and let´s have a talk, I want to explain something". Children mostly are far more aware of and able to understand what is going on than adults tend to think; their mental capacities and the age when they begin to ask questions, may differ, and adults should care about and adapt to using the right, suitable words for each individual, but in general they don´t need a 'safe space' : important rather is that they are given and get reinforced with general awareness, self-confidence and strength and that they are trusted to cope with things they come up with themselves.
I studied economics and social sciences, then trained as a psychotherapist and worked as a therapist.
Among other things, I developed a course program on the subject of sexual violence especially towards children and spent many years on the road giving courses on this in kindergardens, schools and for teachers and parents (even was on German/French TV) - and while adults were often frightened and put off by this topic and described it as "very difficult", almost all children were very interested, had fun, were open to when it was explained to them using age-appropriate language.
But since children are usually unable to help themselves in an emergency, the discussions and instruction for parents are even more important in order to convey the right attention and approach to the topic.
They very often transferred their own problems, fears and reservations about the topic onto the children and often claimed, "this is not for children". But the children never had any problems with it, only the adults.
And if the adults are full of defensiveness about the topic, they cannot help children either and the children do not feel them as people they can trust.
Addressing and breaking these resistances was the most difficult but is the most important thing about this topic. The children often had many more questions after the courses and wanted to talk about them further.
Only if you give the children a strong body self awareness and a feeling that you are always at their side on this issue, will children defend themselves against attacks and confide in adults, as to reflect on this is one thing, experiencing it is another, and the better you have thought and talked about it the better you can help yourself or look for help in 'real' cases.
As one result, and only after some time even some 'real' cases of sexual assault against children became revealed and legal cases.
Even now, many years after my last course, I receive thankful mails on this, that is really moving me.
My grandpa was a Polish immigrant. I spent massive time with him. He came here after the Russian Polish war in 1922 from Europe born in 1906 he was 16. He taught me repeatedly that there were 2 types of people in this world. Jews and Jew haters. My other grandpa was a fanatical revisionist Zionist. Jabotinsky was mentioned constantly in our home. My dad and uncle spent summers training at Camp Betar in Hunter NY. We were always from a young age taught to defend ourselves militantly. I would tell any parent to teach their children to defend themselves and absolutely “Jews learn to shoot” my favorite Jabotinsky line.
Thanks Kafr for sharing your story. I also agree it’s important for Jewish kids to learn some self defense especially today. Mine are in karate and I plan to teach them about gun safety and shooting at an appropriate age. I am not sure when that is because I didn’t learn about how to responsibly handle firearms until I was an adult.
Jews have some of the lowest rates of gun ownership in America because many of us are concentrated in liberal cities with strict gun laws and it can be a hassle getting permits in many of those cities. Helping more Jews learn to navigate the paperwork and giving them the tools to learn how to be responsible gun owners is one of the goals of Maccabee Nation and something I plan to write more about in the future. It’s unfortunately more important than ever.
A friends son has been actively engaged in the PP protesting scene here in Melbourne to his mothers heartache. We were discussing this and I asked her I wonder what he thinks “from the river to the sea meant”? She asked him. Firstly he couldn’t name tue river or the sea, secondly he adamantly denied that it meant removing all the Jews. So the bottom line is half the protestors have no idea what they are protesting for.
This has been my experience as well. Why should our children be the victims of their willful ignorance and stupidity though? The response here is geared toward young kids. Older kids, especially those in high school and college will face very different challenges. Unfortunately I see the likelihood for violence for older kids being very high. We have to have a lot of serious and tough conversations about how to advise these kids in a way they can live their lives safely and with dignity in this f*cked up world we find ourselves in.
Yes I agree. And I don’t excuse their ignorance. They should be to account for their actions.
Wow. This is scary. Living in Israel we don’t feel individual antisemitism because we’re all in it together.
I would definitely put antisemitism in a historical context. On Passover we say “bchol dor v’dor “, in every generation. Even though life can be frightening here, my children and grandchildren know from age 0 that the Egyptians did it to us, the Persians (Purim), the Greeks (Chanukah), the Romans, the Nazis, and the Arabs in modern history.Even the Babylonians because they destroyed the first Temple. There are so many stories of true Jewish heros, both on a physical level and a spiritual level., to tell about. We’re still here, and those cultures are gone. The Arabs are the final challenge.
The main thing is that children should have a genuine Jewish education , to feel proud of their heritage, and to get to know the wondrous aspects of being a Jew..
Much success!
Thank you Liba for sharing your perspective, those great lessons.
Creating a space where Israelis, Diaspora Jews, and our allies, can have these types of conversations is one of the things I love most about helping build this community.
It is one thing to talk about anti-semitism, another for the child to experience it and thus learn from experience. As a kid, my parents never discussed anti-semitism with me, that is, they never brought it up. I learned it on the streets of Brooklyn, learned you had to be tough and resilient. The lesson was experiential, there was no need for discussion.
Do you think it would be easier if they had prepared you?
NO, it would have made me nervous and maybe paranoid. Not expecting to find hatred allows you to remain less nervous and eliminated the paranoia. Without going into details, I learned it experientially, which the best kind of learning. My wife and I decided not to talk to our three kids about anti-semitism, even to the point that when our house got egged for about 3 straight years during Hanukkah, we didn't attribute it to the menorah in our front window. We told the kids it was mischief. I got up one morning at 4:30 am and set up in my car. At 5:30 am a car drove by, stopped, and the house got egged. I was able to stop the vandals, both about 17, and decided not to call the cops but to take their driving licenses so I knew where they lived. They never did it again. My kids are all happily married, not paranoid at all. I do think they don't see anti-semitism when it actually happens. My son is a tough kid and went straight into the Army out of high school, served as an Army Ranger and was deployed twice to Afghanistan and once to Iraq. When he described certain adverse and unfair treatment by one officer, I told him I thought it might be because my son was Jewish. My son discounted that, just thought the guy was an asshole. I told him it could be both.
Thank you for sharing that perspective. I think it’s important and helpful. It makes me less worried about getting the timing right, and I think it’s as valid a strategy as any other. There are truly no right or wrong answer and a lot I think depends on the nature of the kid and the community you’re in.
One more question, I’m not sure how old your kids are, but if they’re similar in age to me, I do think Israel was less of a partisan issue then as it is today. I personally believe it might be harder in school for kids now and that might mean we have to take extra steps to prepare them proactively. I’d like to hear your thoughts… will kids today have to deal with more bullshit than we did?
Good points. My kids didn't have to deal as much with the Jew hatred thinly disguised as anti Zionism. My kids are 36, 35, 30, 30, and 28. Several grandkids between ages 2 and 9.
There were several thousands of children in Concentration Camps, even babies (around 23.000 in Oswiecim/ Auschwitz): they weren´t asked if they can (under)stand this.
The right time more or less always is when the children begin to pose questions, which mostly is at a very young age. Adults should not distract here or beat around the bush. they mostly don´t have to tell children to "sit down and let´s have a talk, I want to explain something". Children mostly are far more aware of and able to understand what is going on than adults tend to think; their mental capacities and the age when they begin to ask questions, may differ, and adults should care about and adapt to using the right, suitable words for each individual, but in general they don´t need a 'safe space' : important rather is that they are given and get reinforced with general awareness, self-confidence and strength and that they are trusted to cope with things they come up with themselves.
Thanks Lothar for sharing your thoughts. I am curious what your field of practice is that you have a doctorate in.
I studied economics and social sciences, then trained as a psychotherapist and worked as a therapist.
Among other things, I developed a course program on the subject of sexual violence especially towards children and spent many years on the road giving courses on this in kindergardens, schools and for teachers and parents (even was on German/French TV) - and while adults were often frightened and put off by this topic and described it as "very difficult", almost all children were very interested, had fun, were open to when it was explained to them using age-appropriate language.
But since children are usually unable to help themselves in an emergency, the discussions and instruction for parents are even more important in order to convey the right attention and approach to the topic.
They very often transferred their own problems, fears and reservations about the topic onto the children and often claimed, "this is not for children". But the children never had any problems with it, only the adults.
And if the adults are full of defensiveness about the topic, they cannot help children either and the children do not feel them as people they can trust.
Addressing and breaking these resistances was the most difficult but is the most important thing about this topic. The children often had many more questions after the courses and wanted to talk about them further.
Only if you give the children a strong body self awareness and a feeling that you are always at their side on this issue, will children defend themselves against attacks and confide in adults, as to reflect on this is one thing, experiencing it is another, and the better you have thought and talked about it the better you can help yourself or look for help in 'real' cases.
As one result, and only after some time even some 'real' cases of sexual assault against children became revealed and legal cases.
Even now, many years after my last course, I receive thankful mails on this, that is really moving me.